Why are there crazy, evil people

[abalene]

I wonder if crazy, evil people are really the problem. For example, one facet of the problem is the lack of reasonable gun control. Most Americans support reasonable gun control, but politicians will not vote for it. Politicians who support gun control have trouble getting re-elected because of organized opposition by the NRA. Unlike the NRA, proponents of gun control do not organize to get out the vote. As a result, the minority - represented by the NRA - wins. So maybe the problem is not with crazy, evil people, but with so-called normal folks who do nothing to stop these disasters from re-occurring. Folks like you and me. Maybe we are the problem.

Do I really need to say it?

Don't mourn. Organize.

Just click here. http://www.bradycampaign.org/

yeah, i have issues with wording of this thread as a big part of the problem in terms of misunderstanding mental illness. most people who do these sort of things are not insane because they know the difference between right and wrong.

[James]

I agree with Zulu. Focusing on guns won't prevent anything this insane from happening.

This is a violation of the most deeply encoded values, whether it's shooting first graders or throwing all the kids in town down a well. Something must be happening in the brain that is way off.

[abalene]

[James]

Last night I listened to RWNJ Alex Jones radio show. The spin was insane. "They're coming for your guns NOW! Stock up! STOCK UP!" I'm sending WNOX an email about that kind of BS this morning.

Alex Jones is whack, yo. OTOH, if he was to turn up dead by an apparent "self-inflicted" gunshot wound...

[Jerseyhighlander]

One time training by gun pushers who con the gullible into believing that they are safer with a gun.

Proved themselves responsible by breaking the law? With so-called "conservative logic" like this, who needs logic? Just read this a couple of times, and tell me that the right wingers do not live in a world that supports everything they believe in, no matter how ridiculous their "logic" is.

"The proposal is founded on a belief that permit holders, by going through a criminal-background check and required training, have proved themselves responsible, Ramsey said. And many are already keeping guns in their cars, despite being in violation of the law, he said."

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/de...es-on-gun-law/

(The bill that was introduced was WRITTEN by the NRA, by the way.)

The results of extended training by law enforcement officers:

[bird jam]

there was a similar incident in china just a day or two before, however since it didn't involve guns the body count was significantly lower.

I doubt that there is any argument that can/will get through to most NRA folks, but "we should be more like China" definitely isn't one, IMO.

And I'm not just trying to be glib - as ridiculous as it may sound to some people, "protecting ourselves from a government that could get too oppressive" is a very real defense for the Second Amendment - one of the less crazy ones, actually. And the fact that there is less gun violence in a totalitarian regime (China) that abuses human rights on the reg is not really going to sway the opinions of people with Second Amendment bumper stickers on their trucks.

[abalene]

I doubt that there is any argument that can/will get through to most NRA folks, but "we should be more like China" definitely isn't one, IMO.

And I'm not just trying to be glib - as ridiculous as it may sound to some people, "protecting ourselves from a government that could get too oppressive" is a very real defense for the Second Amendment - one of the less crazy ones, actually. And the fact that there is less gun violence in a totalitarian regime (China) that abuses human rights on the reg is not really going to sway the opinions of people with Second Amendment bumper stickers on their trucks.

never said it would. found it compelling. as far as the abuse of human rights go... is the pot calling the kettle black? it seems the u$a isn't exactly innocent. just the other day was reading about some of the sick-ass-shit the cia is into. i believe what our government does in the name of freedom has a lot to do with why these things happen.

[ernie]

I sort of wish we would start with mental health instead. We throw away too many lives and too many resources simply because nobody wants to talk about mental health care. If we made a fundamental shift in the way we think about mental health, the positive effects on our civilization would be enormous. Mental health issues lie at the root of numerous difficult, seemingly intractable problems in this country. Those problems remain intractable because everyone wants to pretend mental health isn't really a serious issue, that it's just a weakness or an excuse. You know, it's not uncommon for an individual with a mental illness or disorder to resist acknowledging that they have the problem at all. Of course, failure to acknowledge the problem makes addressing it nearly impossible. We as a nation are suffering from the same effects of our collective denial. If we would just hold still and begin to talk about it seriously, however, we could begin to make
real progress.

Is it a matter of either/or? Can't we talk about both mental illness and gun control? And can't we also talk about the culture of violence in this country as it is promoted in movies and electronic games?

[SnM]

Can we talk about the culture of violence indelibly ingrained in this country's bloodstained history?

Sure. But a bunch of well-meaning conversationalists who are never likely to kill anyone with a gun or anything else except in self-defense or in military service of country gibbering on an internet message board is probably not going to accomplish a lot when what's really needed is for the gun zealots - you know, the people with all the guns, who are far more likely to kill and/or be killed by guns - to talk about what to do about gun violence and mental health care and not about how to prevent the anti-gun zealots - you know, the well-meaning internet conversationalists who aren't going to kill anybody - taking away their guns, which is what the gun zealots are going to talk about every time a bunch of well-meaning conversationalists who are never likely to kill anyone with a gun or anything else except in self-defense or in military service of country start chattering about what to do about gun violence and mental health care.

Impotency.

[tardisrider]

And can't we also talk about the culture of violence in this country as it is promoted in movies and electronic games?

People have blamed movies and games and music and comics and everything else they can think of for a long time. It was bullshit then and it's bullshit now. Talk about it all you want. You can also go outside and yell at clouds. Personally, I blame the pope. It will do just as much good.