A Randian thought experiment...

[Scott Barker]

actually, just no more of their "chocolaty" bars - there are plenty of companies making real chocolate bars.

I know. I just thought it funny they were on the list as high as they were.

[rikki]

Yes, it was a work of fiction and there's probably no realistic way for them to truly extricate themselves from the economy, but these individuals still exist. Just take a look at the Forbes 400 and imagine what would happen to the American economy if these people somehow took their toys and went Galt: Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, the Walton family, the Koch brothers, George Soros, Michael Bloomberg, Phil Knight, the Mars family (no more candy bars!), Mark Zuckerberg, Si Newhouse, Rupert Murdoch, George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, the Frist family, Sumner Redstone, Oprah and dozens of people you've never heard of but who manage or control vast sums of money. Not to mention the Donald.

I still don't know what it means for, say, Bill Gates to take his toys and go Galt. Does that mean Microsoft shuts down? Does he trigger some doomsday code in the Windows OS that cripples every computer its installed on? Or does it just mean someone else runs the company? I'm not sure how many of those people fully own their toys to be able to abscond with them. With the dubious exception of Gates, none of them invented anything. Neil McCauley is pretty self-important about his work, but he didn't invent guns or radio wave transmission. If part of this thought experiment is imagining that someone could simply erase their contributions as if they never existed, it's not rich fuckers that would cause the biggest stir; it's scientists and engineers, most of whom never attained riches anywhere near the value they gave to mankind. Does Neil share any of his loot with Marconi or whoever invented the gun or their heirs?

Imagine if individuals who weren't just wealthy but actually enriched mankind went Galt. That's frightening. Losing the richest 1% would probably be more like taking a good dump. Speaking of which, thank you inventors of wireless internet and toilet paper!

[rikki]

Well, my understanding of the exercise is that the 1 percent pull their wealth out of the economy when they go Galt. Obviously, that can't really happen, but if it could happen, then the effects would be pretty drastic in certain segments of the economy. If Warren Buffett pulled his wealth out of Berkshire Hathaway, the company would cease to exist (and Clayton Homes would close overnight). In 2010, Microsoft's market value was $239B. Bill Gates was worth $54B. Assuming that most of his wealth is in Microsoft stock, the company could lose as much as 20 percent of its value immediately. Throw in Paul Allen's $13B, and even more wealth evaporates. Microsoft would be hard-pressed to survive. Various members of the Walton family (the four ranked #4, #7,#8 and #9 on the Forbes list) are collectively worth $85B. Walmart's market value was $230B. If the Waltons walked away with their investment (assuming, again, that most of their wealth is tied up in Walmart stock), the company could lose one-third of its value. Bankruptcy would be a given.

But that's not how stock works. If they just march off with their stock certificates, they've got paper, and the company could care less. It just means dividend checks that you know will never be cashed.

[Scott Barker]

I still don't know what it means for, say, Bill Gates to take his toys and go Galt. Does that mean Microsoft shuts down? Does he trigger some doomsday code in the Windows OS that cripples every computer its installed on? Or does it just mean someone else runs the company? I'm not sure how many of those people fully own their toys to be able to abscond with them. With the dubious exception of Gates, none of them invented anything. Neil McCauley is pretty self-important about his work, but he didn't invent guns or radio wave transmission. If part of this thought experiment is imagining that someone could simply erase their contributions as if they never existed, it's not rich fuckers that would cause the biggest stir; it's scientists and engineers, most of whom never attained riches anywhere near the value they gave to mankind. Does Neil share any of his loot with Marconi or whoever invented the gun or their heirs?

Imagine if individuals who weren't just wealthy but actually enriched mankind went Galt. That's frightening. Losing the richest 1% would probably be more like taking a good dump. Speaking of which, thank you inventors of wireless internet and toilet paper!

I'm assuming that when they "Go Galt" they take their wealth with them. Obviously, it wouldn't work this way in the real world (remember, going Galt is a fantasy), but if Gate's investment in Microsoft is suddenly whisked away, then the company would be in trouble. The products would remain, sure, but few companies can easily absorb the sudden withdrawal of 20 or 25 percent of their worth.

[jfm]

Right. But that's where the thought experiment falls apart. Rocky is asking what would happen in the real world, and the answer is that Rand's fantasy is actually impossible in the real world. (Because Rand didn't understand anything about business or government.)

[The Pullet Surprise]

Going Galt is not only a fantasy, it's an empty threat.

The fact is that The Masters Of The Universe (TM) need the "parasites" in order to function.

Let them fuck off to Galt Gulch or Colorado Springs or Somalia or wherever so they can jerk off in the dark to The Fountainhead and impress each other with their alleged wherewithal (the only marginal product many of them are capable of). Once they figure out that while they can competently run a Ponzi scheme, but that none of them can mow a lawn or hang drywall, they'll become bored of attempting to exploit one another and come slithering back within a few months.

[Scott Barker]

Right. But that's where the thought experiment falls apart. Rocky is asking what would happen in the real world, and the answer is that Rand's fantasy is actually impossible in the real world. (Because Rand didn't understand anything about business or government.)

Of course it can't happen in the real world. I didn't realize anyone was taking this thing seriously.

[Hildegard]

Fantasy? OK. The Kochs, and anyone associated with Goldman, Sachs or CitiGroup, I'd have guillotined, shrink their heads Borneo-style and donate them to a softball league for homeless lesbians. Crrrrrrack.

The rest of everybody on Scott Barker's list of capitalist movers and shakers would be imprisoned for life.

Oh come on. I'm against the death penalty. I'm kidding.

[# 9]

Right. But that's where the thought experiment falls apart. Rocky is asking what would happen in the real world, and the answer is that Rand's fantasy is actually impossible in the real world. (Because Rand didn't understand anything about business or government.)

Simpleton fools. Galt isn't about Galt's Gulch. As usual you are far too literal. Going Galt is dogging it. I went Galt a long time ago. Ask the Doctor. He went Galt a long time ago. Did you think we would stop completely? Move to some Galt Atlantis? Jesus, you bitch because we have so much more than you do now. The point is we could have had much much more. And employed more people. And created more wealth and more prosperity. What prosperity do you create with your jobs? How many jobs do you create? You kill prosperity. It is your mission.

We stopped caring. It wasn't only the taxes. It was the fucking rules. All of the pain in the ass micromanagement you put upon anyone that creates anything. Take Hillside and Ridgetop. We don't care. You don't want new construction. You don't want coal, gas, nuclear, hydro. You are Luddites. Only solar and wind power. No gasoline cars. You live in a dream world.

If we left you to make the decisions we would have bread lines.

And you tell us about fantasy. You tell us Rand didn't understand anything about business or government.

Then how did she predict you?

[rikki]

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