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Thread: A Randian thought experiment...

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by # 9 View Post
    that is as boring as...well you know.
    A little train footage ought to liven things right up.
    They took his hair, Tommy. Jesus that's strange.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by rikki View Post
    It was a work of fiction. Maybe in the robber baron days there were individuals whose deliberate exclusion of themselves from the economy would have had big effects, but with everything now in the hands of corporations, I doubt such individuals exist.
    Yes, it was a work of fiction and there's probably no realistic way for them to truly extricate themselves from the economy, but these individuals still exist. Just take a look at the Forbes 400 and imagine what would happen to the American economy if these people somehow took their toys and went Galt: Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, the Walton family, the Koch brothers, George Soros, Michael Bloomberg, Phil Knight, the Mars family (no more candy bars!), Mark Zuckerberg, Si Newhouse, Rupert Murdoch, George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, the Frist family, Sumner Redstone, Oprah and dozens of people you've never heard of but who manage or control vast sums of money. Not to mention the Donald.

    Yes, many wouldn't be missed as personalities but if they could all just cash out and disappear, the computer, retail, entertainment, finance, media and other industries would be crippled. Of course, if they don't take any of the 99 percent of the rest of us, they'd probably be miserable too - what good is having money if you can't underpay servants to cook and clean for you? Rugged individualism is great, as long as it's not too rugged.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky Hillian View Post
    What would happen to the 1%ers?
    What I want to know is who would do their laundry, clean their houses, pick up their garbage, mow their yards, etc.

    Perhaps objectivist fairies?
    If you are pissed at a dog for keeping you awake with its barking, it's not because you disagree with what it's saying. -- Rikki

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raincrow View Post
    Nobody noticed when John Denver disappeared into Colorado.
    Who is John Denver?
    Lincoln Fight Club...

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    "Republicans in East Tennessee live in a government compound of national and state forests, land grant universities, nuclear research labs, and TVA lakes and dams, while pretending to be coonskin cappers guarding the mountain passes to stop socialism." - (Commenter from Oregon discussing the Tennessee Governors contest in the NYT) (hat tip to Hank IV)

  5. #15

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    @ Scott: I think you overestimate the actual value of individuals. Save maybe Jobs, if you remove a personality it won't effect a single company, let alone an entire industry.
    Take Facebook. If Zucketberg tales a Virgin rocketship to Alpha Centari FB will still continue as if nothing much happened.

    @ Rikki: I realize it's all a fiction, "thought experiment." I would simply like to know what people thought the "best and brightest" would do with all that "wealth" but no way to live.
    “Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself.”
    ― Leo Tolstoy

  6. #16
    Senior Member F-Stop's Avatar
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    If all the top wage earners left, we might have to live without CDO's and Six Sigma. Tragic.
    Lincoln Fight Club...

    Listen online: KEXP 90.3 Seattle - Kexp.org

    "Republicans in East Tennessee live in a government compound of national and state forests, land grant universities, nuclear research labs, and TVA lakes and dams, while pretending to be coonskin cappers guarding the mountain passes to stop socialism." - (Commenter from Oregon discussing the Tennessee Governors contest in the NYT) (hat tip to Hank IV)

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Barker View Post
    Yes, it was a work of fiction and there's probably no realistic way for them to truly extricate themselves from the economy, but these individuals still exist. Just take a look at the Forbes 400 and imagine what would happen to the American economy if these people somehow took their toys and went Galt: Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, the Walton family, the Koch brothers, George Soros, Michael Bloomberg, Phil Knight, the Mars family (no more candy bars!), Mark Zuckerberg, Si Newhouse, Rupert Murdoch, George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, the Frist family, Sumner Redstone, Oprah and dozens of people you've never heard of but who manage or control vast sums of money. Not to mention the Donald.

    Yes, many wouldn't be missed as personalities but if they could all just cash out and disappear, the computer, retail, entertainment, finance, media and other industries would be crippled. Of course, if they don't take any of the 99 percent of the rest of us, they'd probably be miserable too - what good is having money if you can't underpay servants to cook and clean for you? Rugged individualism is great, as long as it's not too rugged.
    Right, and anyway, the entire idea of "extricating themselves from the economy" is sort of mind-bogglingly dunderheaded -- they made their money through their involvement in the economy. The people who Rand sees as somehow "victims" of the system are actually its biggest beneficiaries.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfm View Post
    Right, and anyway, the entire idea of "extricating themselves from the economy" is sort of mind-bogglingly dunderheaded -- they made their money through their involvement in the economy. The people who Rand sees as somehow "victims" of the system are actually its biggest beneficiaries.
    QFT

    As had been said before, the rich need the poor more than the poor need the rich.
    Lincoln Fight Club...

    Listen online: KEXP 90.3 Seattle - Kexp.org

    "Republicans in East Tennessee live in a government compound of national and state forests, land grant universities, nuclear research labs, and TVA lakes and dams, while pretending to be coonskin cappers guarding the mountain passes to stop socialism." - (Commenter from Oregon discussing the Tennessee Governors contest in the NYT) (hat tip to Hank IV)

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky Hillian View Post
    @ Scott: I think you overestimate the actual value of individuals. Save maybe Jobs, if you remove a personality it won't effect a single company, let alone an entire industry.
    Take Facebook. If Zucketberg tales a Virgin rocketship to Alpha Centari FB will still continue as if nothing much happened.

    @ Rikki: I realize it's all a fiction, "thought experiment." I would simply like to know what people thought the "best and brightest" would do with all that "wealth" but no way to live.
    Well, my understanding of the exercise is that the 1 percent pull their wealth out of the economy when they go Galt. Obviously, that can't really happen, but if it could happen, then the effects would be pretty drastic in certain segments of the economy. If Warren Buffett pulled his wealth out of Berkshire Hathaway, the company would cease to exist (and Clayton Homes would close overnight). In 2010, Microsoft's market value was $239B. Bill Gates was worth $54B. Assuming that most of his wealth is in Microsoft stock, the company could lose as much as 20 percent of its value immediately. Throw in Paul Allen's $13B, and even more wealth evaporates. Microsoft would be hard-pressed to survive. Various members of the Walton family (the four ranked #4, #7,#8 and #9 on the Forbes list) are collectively worth $85B. Walmart's market value was $230B. If the Waltons walked away with their investment (assuming, again, that most of their wealth is tied up in Walmart stock), the company could lose one-third of its value. Bankruptcy would be a given.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Barker View Post
    the Mars family (no more candy bars!
    actually, just no more of their "chocolaty" bars - there are plenty of companies making real chocolate bars.
    http://audioarchives.blogspot.com

    Where odd audio errata, ephemeralities, and nonsense occasionally collide with actual music for serious contemplation. Trouble is - I'm not saying what is which.

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