why move to knoxville?

[kag]

I have a friend - a writer whose name you might recognize (she's terrific) - who is considering moving to Knoxville after a life spent on the West Coast. She's currently in Portland.

She's late 30s and has a partner who will be moving with her. Her daughter will be in college elsewhere. She makes a living writing books and freelance pieces for magazines. She also founded and continues to oversee a rather well known indie magazine.

She's looking at a number of different cities around the country and Knoxville is on the short list. She asked me to give her a list of reasons why she should move to Knoxville.

So I open the floor. Why should she move to Knoxville? What's to love?

[F-Stop]

Wow, she wants to move from Portland? Never been, but I hear it's awesome...

Knoxville is great for it's proximity to the Great Smoky Mountains. I'd name that first.

[The Skillet]

Frankenhooker

[Wombat]

We don't have volcanos.

[kag]

I would assume that affordability is an issue. It's probably ungodly expensive to live in Portland these days.

[kag]

I'll add that Knoxville has a thriving local music scene to rival any small city in the country

[Smootz]

I would assume that affordability is an issue. It's probably ungodly expensive to live in Portland these days.

KNS, July 8, 2006 (http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/business/article/0,1406,KNS_376_4829942,00.html) "While local salaries are 8 percent below the national average, the cost of living is 22 percent below the national average, according to ERI."

[~Rumormonger~]

I'd say community...The way people here just sorta pull you into their sphere of friends and suddenly you know half 'the town.

[JohnnyB]

The weather. Not too hot (despite all evidence to the contrary today), not too cold.

Beautiful, assuming you like that sort of thing.

Tomato Head

Sunspot

Nama

AC/Sundown/Bonnaroo

Tennessee Theater

Bijou Theater

Great cycling (again, if you like that sort of thing) and for that matter world class outdoor activities in all areas except winter sports.

Pretty hip music scene

[Randall]

There are lots of, shall we say, "culturally contemporary mothers" around here.

And, you know ... the weather is generally nice. We don't get the brunt of hurricanes, earthquakes or volcanoes. We have lots of trees.

[kag]

There are lots of, shall we say, "culturally contemporary mothers" around here.

Ding! Ding! Randall wins guess o' the day for who my friend is :-)

[JoeVol72]

Well,of course there's UT football.:rolleyes:
And I hear some of the best hairstylists going!

[gypsy]

on top of all that, you could suggest to her that she could make more of a difference in whatever it is that's important to her in knoxville than in portland. i have a lefty-liberal friend who has lived in portland a few times, and he's always left because he said he eventually starts to get antsy -- like, all the fights he cares about have either been won in portland, or there are plenty of other dedicated people to fight them. besides being expensive, utopias can be a little boring.

(this is what i tell myself about the prospect of eventually returning. and i have to say, 3-bedroom houses for $105,000 are no small enticement either.)

[James]

I'll add that Knoxville has a thriving local music scene to rival any small city in the countryThink "per capita". I think it's the shear number of folks here who are into the performing arts that makes this aspect of ET so interesting.

IMO, I think there is some kind of creative "juice" here that, if you are an artist, you sort of "tap into" in some way--I dunno. It's almost as if it's easier to cerate art in East Tennessee than it is in other places.

Let's see, we have what, 300,000 people? And the number of theater companies here?--at least five or six putting on shows at any one time as far as I can tell. And Knoxbands.com listed about 250 bands looking for gigs. It's weird, but I like it.

I'd say if your friend moves here, she'll find herself getting lots of ideas and writing a lot of stuff.

[bird jam]

Whatever county Portland is in probably has a pesky charter. She won't have to worry about that here.

[Tess]

I have only been to Portland, OR once, and that was about 6 years ago. I was very impressed with that town. Very clean, and very friendly.

If she is determined to move, Knoxville would be a good choice, IMHO.

I think Portland probably has cleaner air, but I would think otherwise, the two cities would be pretty comparable.

[Carl Snow]

its in the south

[binR Bishop]

on top of all that, you could suggest to her that she could make more of a difference in whatever it is that's important to her in knoxville than in portland. i have a lefty-liberal friend who has lived in portland a few times, and he's always left because he said he eventually starts to get antsy -- like, all the fights he cares about have either been won in portland, or there are plenty of other dedicated people to fight them. besides being expensive, utopias can be a little boring.



If we ever leave Knoxville, it will doubtless be for Portland. The spouse grew up in Oregon, and gets homesick, and god knows in many ways it's wonderful out there.

But gypsy's argument is precisely the one I use on him whenever he gets too antsy - they don't need us in Portland like they do here. (Not to mention that our house would cost about 5 times there what it does here.)

But truthfully, as much as I love Knoxville, and as easily as I could marshall arguments for living here for most folks, I'd have a difficult time telling someone from Portland that they'd like it better here.

[fluffy]

Sunsphere.

[bookeddy]

The Book Eddy.

Seriously. The ability to have a shop like mine in the groovy zip codes in this country is dwindling fast. I know numerous competent book sellers who have close up shop because the uber-hipness of their neighborhoods precluded their reality.

Of course if you OWN your space, the math is different.

[bookeddy]

by the way, is the association of forest service employees for environmental ethics (AFSEE) still residing in Portland? They changed their name a while back and I started slinging my shrinking extra cash to Socm (save our cumberland moutains), so I've lost touch. I did visit their offices in Portland once many years ago....

[jack frost]

Reasons not to move to Knoxville:

Piss-poor air quality
Unmarked nuclear waste disposal sites right in your backyard
Lack of anything remotely approaching a reasonable mass transit system
Not extremely bike-friendly
Piss-poor water quality
The Strip
UT football
GAME DAYS
I-40's mind-boggling "improvement project" which appears to be literally endless

Reasons to move to Knoxville:
Hell is full

No, seriously, I don't hate Knoxville, but there are a lot of other cities in the country I'd move to first. Athens, Georgia. Americus, Georgia. Melbourne, Florida. Vancouver, Washington. Memphis. Knoxville would probably be somewhere around #18 on the list of "cities I've lived in or visited extensively that I would choose".

(And before anyone asks me why I don't move, hey, if I had back my car and all the money and property I lost in the "breakup from Hell", maybe I would. But I've been here long enough to grow roots and I'm attached to some of the people.)

[liltimmy]

The karaoke at Toot's Honky Tonk is the best entertainment around ...

[JohnT]

Knoxville is, in many ways, akin to Portland... just a little less. A little less mountainous, a little less weather variation, a little less downtown oriented.

But: A lot less populated and expensive. Your friends' comparative standard of living will go through the roof, literally. I've seen one relatively undermployed person, who lived in a McMansion, whom, when asked why he didn't go back to LA, replied "Are you kidding? There's no way I could scrape together the mortgage payment on a house like this in LA, with an alimony payment, while working at...!"

However, she should be aware that it's far more conservative than her worst nightmares. ;) But she sounds like one who is up for a challenge!

[JohnT]

Athens, Georgia

Wait. You would rather live in Athens, GA, then Knoxville?

:blinks:

Seriously?

I mean - I lived there for 8 years. Are you serious? That piss-poor, pothole-ridden, humidity-leavened, standard-of-living-reducing, redneck-lovin', hellhole Athens? Georgia?

Surely you forgot a period... "I want to live in Athens. Georgia. etc", meaning the city of Athens Greece and the former Soviet Republic of Georgia. Right?

Because there is no way this UGA graduate, Dawg-loving, Athens vet of 8 years would ever go back to live. Hell, it was in Athens where I met my wife (for the second time) and we decided to get married (we had the good sense to get married at Lake Lanier though). I visit my friends once or twice a year and it's always the freakin' same: hot, humid, and always 10 years behind the times. Last time I was there, it seemingly had the greatest proportion of mid '90s Japanese cars than any city in the Western world - easily.

And I think the Illuminati have been at work on your post for I think I see a "fnord" in the shape of "Americus, Georgia", for those words ("I want... to live... in... Americus GA") in that combination, must be against the rules of grammar for they truly make no sense at all. At least Athens has REM and the Georgia Theater.

[The Skillet]

I gotta disagree on the 'game day' thing. Game day is GREAT!! If you love the pageantry of the Vols, game day is GREAT!! If you want to knock a bunch of errands off your list on a Saturday in record time, game day is GREAT!! 15 minute oil changes really are 15 minute oil changes on game day. I-40 is the Autobahn...you can kill a hobo and there would be no witnesses...you can do anything you want on game day, except take a nap in the Fort. On that day, the city is your oyster.

[jack frost]

Athens has the 40 Watt Club and a thriving art scene and is beautiful. Also, I knew a lot of really amazing people there. Your mileage obviously varied, but I found it to be really great.

And what's wrong with Americus? Granted, I haven't been there in 5 years, so I reckon it could have gone to shit since then, but when I was there it was incredibly friendly, racially tolerant, clean, and overall a nice place to be.

[fluffy]

No, seriously, I don't hate Knoxville, but there are a lot of other cities in the country I'd move to first. Athens, Georgia. Americus, Georgia. Melbourne, Florida. Vancouver, Washington. Memphis. Knoxville would probably be somewhere around #18 on the list of "cities I've lived in or visited extensively that I would choose".




is asheville an option? not too far away from ktown. seems that would be an easy move.

[rivers]

Dollywood,Duh

[JohnT]

An endless expanse of pine trees wavering in the humidity baths known as "air" is 'beautiful'? ;)

[fluffy]

Dollywood,Duh


dont knock the D'Wood. if i still lived in ktown id have a season pass!

[metulj]

The karaoke at Toot's Honky Tonk is the best entertainment around ...

ding ding ding fucking ding. That's a winner. They are nice folks.

[spinetingler]

why Knoxville?

I don't know - ask sundrop sue.

[jack frost]

Yeah, I'd pick Asheville over Knoxville any day. Didn't even think about that.

Worst city I've ever lived in or visited? Winston-Salem. Holy shit, that place makes Newark look like fucking Athens, Greece.

[Georgia]

.

Worst city I've ever lived in or visited? Winston-Salem. Holy shit, that place makes Newark look like fucking Athens, Greece.

New Jersey, California, Delaware or Ohio?

[jack frost]

Newark, NJ.

Actually though, now that I think about it, Trenton is even more of a hellhole than Newark.

Basically, there are a lot of really shitty towns in New Jersey, which is a pity because believe it or not, there are also really nice, non-polluted areas.

[metulj]

Worst city I've ever lived in or visited? Winston-Salem. Holy shit, that place makes Newark look like fucking Athens, Greece.

I spend my days at work in Newark, NJ, grew up outside Winston-Salem and lived, as a boy, in Athens, Greece. I was last in Athens in 2000. It is still an upholstered shithole that, without all the historical stuff to burnish it, hovers just above developing world basketcase and either of the places Jack maligns are infinitely more interesting to me.

I beg my Greek and Married-to-a-Greek Blabbers forgiveness.

[jack frost]

But Winston-Salem is an unupholstered shithole. It's like someone conciously decided to take the worst parts of every other Southern town and combine them into one sucktacular pit of evil.

[metulj]

But Winston-Salem is an unupholstered shithole. It's like someone conciously decided to take the worst parts of every other Southern town and combine them into one sucktacular pit of evil.

Three words for you: Reynolds High School. Saw REM one night and Love Tractor two nights later. Both for 5 bucks.

[Hank IV]

I'm voting for Birmingham and Mobile, Alabama as major shit holes. As for smaller cities I've spent time in, West Monroe, Louisiana (mosquitos so big they can stand flat-footed and fuck a turkey).

[binR Bishop]

The Book Eddy.


Great reason. But then Portland has Powell's.

[bookeddy]

Yup. Michael Powell wants to buy the Book Eddy's stock.... whenever we're "ready". He stood here in South Knoxville and told me to my face.

I told him that I would persevere for now.

Powell's is an amazing operation. In the Airport. Six or Seven specialty stores. Much real estate owned. They've done a great job.

re: The Book Eddy: there's value in them thar' stacks.

p.s. I'm not sure what goes after the "r" in "thar".

edited to clear up some modifiers.

[Scott]

I spent friday and saturday in Floyd Virginia went to a wedding. Man Floyd's like the Asheville of Virginia I would highly reccomend it. When we pulled up friday night around 9:30 there were three bluegrass bands jamming downtown. One in a club and two on the street. IT was a blast.

As for Knoxville, Tomato Head, Ashley Capps, the Valley between the Mountains, the Painters and the Writers. Knoxville has a feel like a freshly worn out shoe. feels good but you wonder how long it will last. What I miss more than anything is the feeling of belonging I've always felt like Knoxville is my home whether I was sleeping outside, working, walking I always felt at home. I don't imagine that other people feel that way. I've always imagined that it's because this is the town were my grandfather hung out and his grand father if not there then somewhere in the appalachains.

Knoxville is a great place for a writer just because of all the stories the old crossroads brings to you.

As always I would advise anyone thinking of moving to Knoxville to read Suttree and A death in the family and it wouldn't hurt to listen to some R. B. Morris and Scott Miller if you don't like those folks well your probably better off somewhere else.

[Hildegard]

Yeah, I'd pick Asheville over Knoxville any day. Didn't even think about that.

Eh, I dunno. I used to feel the same way. Over the years I've spent a lot of time in Asheville, including subletting (sort of) a friend's apt on Haywood St last summer for weekend retreats. I love Asheville. And this is the first year in the last ten I haven't visited there even one time.

Asheville is cool. Asheville is pretty and hip and has a great....scene. And it is that scene that everyone is hyperconscious of. Between the vagabond kids in dreds and macrame berets busking in the park breeze, the hippie dykes swaying as they take in bongo beat spoken word at Malaprop's, the river sport or cycling enthusiasts hooking up their gear for a weekend in Hot Springs - between all that and the (considerably more populous than the aforementioned demographic subset) REST of Asheville, which is just as (and maybe more) redneck than a Clinton Highway bar during a televised Daytona 500 - is a chasm occupied principally by tourists from places like Knoxville who wish their town were so much more like Asheville.

In the past week alone, I have enjoyed the society of a wide variety of people ranging from a Nashville-born cyclist (who actually finds Knoxville more biker friendly than most Southern towns), to an eco-librarian, to progressive Chicago-native transplants to a fabulous new home in Fountain City they can't BELIEVE the price of, to two (separate) European natives for whom the livin' is easy compared to home, all the way to the usual bombasts (of such glittering variety of interest and provenance I cannot contain in this post) at the brew pub on Wednesday nights, and not least to mention the freaks whose company I joined at a literary open mike last week. And especially not least the esteemed Knoxville writer who ensconces himself in a new writer's studio on 11th Street at odd hours and loves to hang out there chewing the fat on a lazy, hot Saturday afternoon.

Those are just the people I know. The past week. Jack Frost reads Tarot at the World Grotto on Market Square. About 7 or 8 years ago Norman Mailer wandered around Market Square and later marveled at how lucky our city was to have a place like that. Look at Market Square at night, especially on a weekend. It's throbbing! It's cool. You can eat at Tomato Head and go next door and have your fucking tarot laid out. You can swing dance. You can look at cool art. You can walk your dog in the Krutch (ahem) greenspace while your kids run around half-naked in the fountains. I'm not even gonna start on music venues - that would take twice the length of this post just to summarize.

One day we'll figure out we have all the resources we need to be "as good" as Asheville, but at least, unlike Asheville, we won't be trying to trace the pattern of Santa Fe or Austin and completely lose sight of what it meant to be Asheville in the days of Thomas Wolfe. Perhaps we'll still have a sense of Knoxville, which, right this minute, is full of really interesting, cool people, who - once they assert themselves, lose their morose defeatism and stop wishing they were somewhere else - could make this town the envy of midsized cities the land over.

[jack frost]

It's true, as someone else said on here or somewhere, sometime - Knoxville has all the ingredients for a great town, but seems to have a problem putting them together right.

[Gnaw Parker]

Aw screw a bunch of Powells. The Book Eddy is smaller, more personal, more electic (now with antiques! and LPs!). I'm betting we have better parking and nicer cats too.
And now to up the shameless plug ante....we have been seriously slammed/blessed with a glut of good book buys this spring. Any of you who this might appeal to....come by. No kidding.
We might be ready to update our old slogan "The Book Eddy, a Great Place to Park" to "The Book Eddy, a Great Place to Buy a Typewriter, a Turn of the Century Treatise on Testicles, and some Dick and Jane Notecards". Oh and don't forget the "hair-growing cat soap". (Thanks again Georgia!)

[Deanna's Daydreamer]

There's a good website to read about ya'lls kickin' cit-aye!

Looks like a great place to raise kids, live a decent life without crime RUINING it (which is where we are in mempho. CNN just reported we are number ONE in the nation) and you've got good waterspots and mountains nearby.

Hell.... I may just move there myself.

But if'n I DEW? I won't be posting here no more. I'll jes be the ghost of daydreaming past.

And I WILL be.... out on the town chasing girls, drinkin' cold beer on the weekends, campin' in nem mountains, swimming in nem lakes, and playing tennis like a hellcat on the university courts, with abandon, speed, focus and incredible intensity.

If'n yew ask me? Knoxtown looks like the kinda place I could live in for a lifetime, baye-bah.

Find me one uh them southern belles hell I might even cut the cake.

http://www.knoxvilletennessee.com/demographics.html



Total population 173,890 100.0 100%
Male 82,390 47.4 49.1%
Female 91,500 52.6 50.9%
Median age (years) 33.4 (X) 35.3
Under 5 years 10,296 5.9 6.8%
18 years and over 139,693 80.3 74.3%
65 years and over 24,994 14.4 12.4%


One race 171,165 98.4 97.6%
White 138,611 79.7 75.1%
Black or African American 28,171 16.2 12.3%
American Indian and Alaska Native 541 0.3 0.9%
Asian 2,525 1.5 3.6%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander 60 0.0 0.1%
Some other race 1,257 0.7 5.5%
Two or more races 2,725 1.6 2.4%

Hispanic or Latino (of any race) 2,751 1.6 12.5%


Average household size 2.12 (X) 2.59
Average family size 2.84 (X) 3.14

Total housing units 84,981 100.0 100.0%
Occupied housing units 76,650 90.2 91.0%
Owner-occupied housing units 39,208 51.2 66.2%
Renter-occupied housing units 37,442 48.8 33.8%
Vacant housing units 8,331 9.8 9.0

[Randall]

Aw screw a bunch of Powells. The Book Eddy is smaller, more personal, more electic (now with antiques! and LPs!). I'm betting we have better parking and nicer cats too.
And now to up the shameless plug ante....we have been seriously slammed/blessed with a glut of good book buys this spring. Any of you who this might appeal to....come by. No kidding.
We might be ready to update our old slogan "The Book Eddy, a Great Place to Park" to "The Book Eddy, a Great Place to Buy a Typewriter, a Turn of the Century Treatise on Testicles, and some Dick and Jane Notecards". Oh and don't forget the "hair-growing cat soap". (Thanks again Georgia!)

Rock on.

[MadDog22]

What makes Mobile, Alabama a shithole? Haven't spent much time there but enjoyed it everytime I have passed through.
I LOVE Oxford, Mississippi if your friend wants a really small town!!
What stands out about Knoxville, for me anyway, is the people. Lots of cool people.

[jah]

I'm voting for Birmingham and Mobile, Alabama as major shit holes. As for smaller cities I've spent time in, West Monroe, Louisiana (mosquitos so big they can stand flat-footed and fuck a turkey).
I see your B-ham and Mobile and I'll raise you a Columbia, SC - the armpit of the south.

I had a roomie in college who was from Mobile, and the way he talked about it I thought it must've been another Savannah or Charleston. I finally went down there a few years ago on vacation and couldn't believe how crappy the town was. And the oil derricks in the bay didn't help one bit. There is one town on the bay that is cool, though, but I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head....

[Rose]

Recently was reunited with long lost friends I grew up with in knox. 10 years later they still cant belive how nice random people are in knoxville. The father Is from Amman Jordan and the mother from phily. The kids were born in knoxville and they moved when I was 16 to amman to visit family they had never met. Being called outkast while there, the kids always missed home(knoxville). Now there back for a visit and cant wait to stay permanantly. Anyway, things here are small and cozy for alot of people. Like me I love the atmosphere and the "random" people I come into contact with. They are nice for the most part. We are not far from alot of big cities and beaches. Weve got the mountains. Mmmm home.........

[The Skillet]

I see your B-ham and Mobile and I'll raise you a Columbia, SC - the armpit of the south.

I had a roomie in college who was from Mobile, and the way he talked about it I thought it must've been another Savannah or Charleston. I finally went down there a few years ago on vacation and couldn't believe how crappy the town was. And the oil derricks in the bay didn't help one bit. There is one town on the bay that is cool, though, but I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head....

I'm going with Bentonville, AR or Jackson, MS as the best places on earth to slit your wrists.

[Milo Bloom]

Athens has the 40 Watt Club and a thriving art scene and is beautiful. Also, I knew a lot of really amazing people there. Your mileage obviously varied, but I found it to be really great.

Lived in Athens for four years, never quite got over how dirty that town is. Unkempt. Unloved. We attributed it to the fact that the locals pretty much had abandoned it to the students.

It's also a very transient place. It feels transient.

Don't get me wrong, we have lots of friends there still, and we will go back to visit, but it just wasn't the place for us.

That is one of the giant plusses for Knoxville and environs - it is a real place, with a real history. Sure, it's a college town, but it's much more. It has music and art, but it isn't ALL about that. It's not particularly defined or hindered by a specific scene (ahem, Athens?), but is more directed by its history. Plus, the local news is actually local. Try that in Athens.

As a bonus, in Knoxville you don't have to drive an hour and a half to get to the damned zoo. Or a decent place to shop. And Atlanta isn't right in your backyard.


But Winston-Salem is an unupholstered shithole. It's like someone conciously decided to take the worst parts of every other Southern town and combine them into one sucktacular pit of evil.

I think you just described Greensboro, NC and Macon, GA! Both festering pits.

[liltimmy]

Three words for you: Reynolds High School. Saw REM one night and Love Tractor two nights later. Both for 5 bucks.

That is pretty cool ... I played there one night on a Let's Active/dB's/Chris Stamey bill (all W-S natives). I've always like Winston, but it's best quality these days is nearby Kernersville, the home of Prissy Polly's BBQ.

As far as Knoxville goes ... I've been here six years (grew up in Jackson, Miss., lived in Atlanta, western North Carolina, Oxford before coming here), and I really like it. I think there are dozens of reasons to move here. It's a comfortable size city for getting around, and there's always stuff going on, either in the clubs, on the square (Shakespeare on the... starts today, doesn't it?), on Gay Street, at the Tenn. or Bijou, on campus, in the Old City, at the art museum, with the various theater groups around town ... that's just scratching the surface, which is mighty impressive for a city of this size.

[jah]

I'm going with Bentonville, AR or Jackson, MS as the best places on earth to slit your wrists.
Ooh, my brother lives in Jackson. I don't know why I didn't think of it.

It does have some charm, though, you just have to look for it. But maybe that's true for every city.

I'm still going with Cola, though. It's just a hideous town.

[~Rumormonger~]

There's also something cool about being in a town while it goes through a renaisance. Portland, Asheville, eh, they're already there. Not that they're static but the cool things that happen there now are just sort of expected. Here you still get to cheer and strut when something cool happens.

[Tess]

I have to agree with you, JAH, about Columbia, SC. The city is hot, hard to get around, and not a friendly city at all to "outsiders."

My son's wife is from there, and their wedding was in Columbia last year. I attended several pre-wedding events, and of course, the wedding, and I hope to never go back there, although her family is lovely, and the wedding was lovely.

Columbia seems to be locked into the conservative, 1950's mindset, with an extremely provincial attitude towards people that "aren't from around there." I think it would be a southern gothic nightmare to live there (for me).

Knoxville is a lot more sophisticated than it gets credit for--a lot more multicultural than most cities its size. Many languages are spoken here, and, maybe because it is a university town, Knoxvillians are a lot more accepting of cultural differences than are people in many small cities.

[spinetingler]

I see your B-ham and Mobile and I'll raise you a Columbia, SC - the armpit of the south.

A miserable place to be.

[Hi Top]

The Funhouse LIVE at Barleys! Duh! ;)

[metulj]

That is pretty cool ... I played there one night on a Let's Active/dB's/Chris Stamey bill (all W-S natives). I've always like Winston, but it's best quality these days is nearby Kernersville, the home of Prissy Polly's BBQ.


Oh, my mother fuck I love Prissy Polly's though I was raised on Short Sugar's in Reidsville (now there's a town worth of the end of the earth).

[bird jam]

Knoxville is a lot more sophisticated than it gets credit for--a lot more multicultural than most cities its size. Many languages are spoken here, and, maybe because it is a university town, Knoxvillians are a lot more accepting of cultural differences than are people in many small cities.

Are you insane? There is reportedly a restaurant that at least 25% of us have heard of where they only hire minority servers. And that's a scientific fact!

[Hank IV]

I guess it's time to plat the trump card of shitty cities.


(shudder) Gary, Indiana. (shudders, again)

[Georgia]

I see your B-ham and Mobile and I'll raise you a Columbia, SC - the armpit of the south.

I had a roomie in college who was from Mobile, and the way he talked about it I thought it must've been another Savannah or Charleston. I finally went down there a few years ago on vacation and couldn't believe how crappy the town was. And the oil derricks in the bay didn't help one bit. There is one town on the bay that is cool, though, but I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head....

Columbia, SC has got to be the hottest place on the planet. It must be in a basin and the wet air just hangs there. We were there for several years and I never could get used to it.
After meeting several people from Mobile, I think they truly believe their city is beautiful and the most wonderful place on earth.
Beauty has always been in the eye of the beholder.

[Tess]

Georgia, we need you and Rick to move to Knoxville!

[edens]

Mobile always reminded me of Knoxville by the sea.

Lynchburg, VA, Bethlehem, PA and Harlan, KY have got to be the saddest cities I've ever set foot in.

[fluffy]

Columbia, SC has got to be the hottest place on the planet. It must be in a basin and the wet air just hangs there. We were there for several years and I never could get used to it.
After meeting several people from Mobile, I think they truly believe their city is beautiful and the most wonderful place on earth.
Beauty has always been in the eye of the beholder.

whats with columbia's weird sales laws too? we drove through there a few weeks ago, and i dont remember what time it was, but for some reason on this particular day you could buy groceries before you could buy non-food goods. they even had a section of a wal-mart partitioned off, while the other side was open. WTF?!?!?

[Tess]

And, you have to pay upfront for your gasoline there. The place closest to our motel would not take credit cards, only cash. Weirdest thing I've ever seen. I kept going inside to give the woman $5 more dollars until I got a fillup. Rudest people anywhere I have ever been, too. (But only if they don't know you.) I noticed locals are treated in an over-the-top sugar-coated manner. Yuck!!!

[Hank IV]

... Harlan, KY...

Man, just about any town in the coalfields, Hazard, Pikeville, Paintsville, Norton Va. You see lots of guys in their late 30's just hanging around town drinking codiene syrup cough medicine. They'll all retired from the mines and have black lung/emphysema. Oh, man it's depressing.

[shady lane]

Man, just about any town in the coalfields, Hazard, Pikeville, Paintsville, Norton Va. You see lots of guys in their late 30's just hanging around town drinking codiene syrup cough medicine. They'll all retired from the mines and have black lung/emphysema. Oh, man it's depressing.

after my father retired last year, he took up a courier route. after a few months, he switched to a local route, largely because he just couldn't stand driving through that every few days. said the sight pretty much drained him.

[~Rumormonger~]

Harlan, KY

You'll never leave there alive...

[smalc]

Man, just about any town in the coalfields, Hazard, Pikeville, Paintsville, Norton Va. You see lots of guys in their late 30's just hanging around town drinking codiene syrup cough medicine. They'll all retired from the mines and have black lung/emphysema. Oh, man it's depressing.

I'll agree with you there. Add a "film" of coal dust over everything and carved-up mountains everywhere you look. Pikeville actually has a billboard proclaiming itself to be one of the 100 best small towns in America. Maybe so on paper-enough really rich residents to raise the average, a college, a couple hospitals (to care for those addicts and those with lung diseases). But it is still a hole.

[spinetingler]

And, you have to pay upfront for your gasoline there.

Lots of SC towns have passed that kind of ordinance.

Probably secretly supported by the credit card companies.

[smalc]

after my father retired last year, he took up a courier route. after a few months, he switched to a local route, largely because he just couldn't stand driving through that every few days. said the sight pretty much drained him.

With all the money coming out of those mountains these days (given the price of coal), these places should have the nicest schools, parks, roads,etc around. But sadly, they don't.

[edens]

You'll never leave there alive...

I don't know about Harlan, but there may be a
price (http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20050428&Category=NEWS0104&ArtNo=504280446&SectionCat=NEWS01&Template=printart) on my head in Pikeville.

[Hank IV]

I remember that. They took them to a fire tower on the Hawkins-Greene county line and murdered them. When I was a teen that fire tower was THE place to go party.

[binR Bishop]

Columbia seems to be locked into the conservative, 1950's mindset, with an extremely provincial attitude towards people that "aren't from around there." I think it would be a southern gothic nightmare to live there (for me).

You have just described Tyler, Texas, where my sister used to live. I spent a year there one week.

[Georgia]

Lived in Athens for four years, never quite got over how dirty that town is. Unkempt. Unloved. We attributed it to the fact that the locals pretty much had abandoned it to the students.

It's also a very transient place. It feels transient.

Don't get me wrong, we have lots of friends there still, and we will go back to visit, but it just wasn't the place for us.

That is one of the giant plusses for Knoxville and environs - it is a real place, with a real history. Sure, it's a college town, but it's much more. It has music and art, but it isn't ALL about that. It's not particularly defined or hindered by a specific scene (ahem, Athens?), but is more directed by its history. Plus, the local news is actually local. Try that in Athens.



Well, it's a university town- it will have a transient feel to it. I was born and raised there so I have the warm fuzzies for it like a lot of you have for Knoxville. Would it be the same to move back there? Of course not- you just can't reclaim the past.
However, when someone asks me where I'm from- I always reply Athens, Georgia. I may be visiting Bathford, England or Florence, Italy at the time...but, home is Athens.

As a student, I don't know what I would have thought about the place and I wouldn't have been looking at it the same way. It might not have mattered as much about the little things that mean a lot and give a place character.

I was envious of the Knoxville thread ya'll had going a while back. And, I do promise, this is not an attempt to hijack this thread- that saying-

*Athens is the only place that grown adults bark at each other.
*Hodgson's Pharmacy is were you went to get .25 ice cream cones.
*Add's Drug Store makes the best smashed grilled cheese sandwiches, slaw dogs and milkshakes. They would deliver your medicines to the door and a gallon of milk or juice if you were too sick to get out.
*The first garden club headquarters of America was founded there- it's on the fringes of old campus.
*Ginko trees rain gold in the fall.
*The music scene (places and people too numerous to begin counting)
*Phoenix health food store
*Milledge Avenue architecture
*Taylor-Grady House with the thirteen columns for the original colonies and the puppet theater in the back.
*Botanical Gardens
*All those ornamental sweet potato vines? Developed at UGA
*driving through neighborhoods to see the dogwoods and azaleas
*Knowing every inch of downtown
*Davidson's department store and the iron gated elevator
*Smelling the stadium before you saw it. (bourbon)
*friends calling on football Saturdays from a gas station payphone and impromtu picnics
*tailgating
*Tanner Lumber Company (where you got things framed and had the best art supplies for browsing)
*interesting cemetaries
*Anesthesia? Developed by Crawford W. Long for frat party fun.
*Blood typing? William L. Moss came up with that-his house if off of Prince Avenue
*eating muscadines and listening to Larry Munson call the games on the radio.
*meeting Lamar Dodd
*Wuxtry
*The Taco Stand
*huge magnolias blooming at the Varsity
*feeling a part of it all

There's so much more but I've got to get some work done. I may add to the list, tho.

Home is where your heart and memories are-doesn't geographically matter where that is, really.

[Georgia]

whats with columbia's weird sales laws too? we drove through there a few weeks ago, and i dont remember what time it was, but for some reason on this particular day you could buy groceries before you could buy non-food goods. they even had a section of a wal-mart partitioned off, while the other side was open. WTF?!?!?

Sure it wasn't Sunday liquor sales and that was why the store was partitioned off?

Like maybe you can buy food before noon on Sunday but not other items?

We haven't lived there since '99 so I have no clue.

That is odder than the normal odd in Columbia.

[~Rumormonger~]

Sure it wasn't Sunday liquor sales and that was why the store was partitioned off?

Like maybe you can buy food before noon on Sunday but not other items?

We haven't lived there since '99 so I have no clue.

That is odder than the normal odd in Columbia.

New Jersey used to have some weird blue laws that precluded selling furniture, household goods, etc. on Sundays. I remember being amazed at the roped off areas in the local department stores when we first moved there from LA ('76ish).

[Georgia]

Have you noticed?
This started out as a why to move to Knoxville thread and then curved into a where you don't want to move to thread....but, the nice thing for Kate's friend is that Knoxville didn't make the list for a place you don't want to move to.

[~Rumormonger~]

Where else but Knoxville (http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/local_news/article/0,1406,KNS_347_4841405,00.html)?

I'd move here just to see that ;~)

[fluffy]

Sure it wasn't Sunday liquor sales and that was why the store was partitioned off?

Like maybe you can buy food before noon on Sunday but not other items?

We haven't lived there since '99 so I have no clue.

That is odder than the normal odd in Columbia.

not unless you consider pillow cases alcohol. no, this was definitely household goods, and what was even stranger was that sales of items like this werent allowed until some strange time, like 10:30 or 12:30 or something like that.

[fluffy]

New Jersey used to have some weird blue laws that precluded selling furniture, household goods, etc. on Sundays. I remember being amazed at the roped off areas in the local department stores when we first moved there from LA ('76ish).


yeah it was something similar to that, only you could buy these items, just not at the same time as perishable goods. really weird.

[pixeljockey]

Worst city I've ever lived in or visited? Winston-Salem. Holy shit, that place makes Newark look like fucking Athens, Greece.

awwww.... i like Winston-Salem. lived there from '77 to '81.
went to Brunsen elementary, Wiley jr. high and North Carolina School of the Arts. We loved the smell of the tabacco mills. Fantastic arts support there too...

...But i was young, so the romance factor is high.

[jah]

Whoever brought up Harlan, KY had it right.

I was there in the late 90's for maybe a week. Not only was it depressing, but everywhere we went somebody managed to get stuff stolen. It was absurd.

And I think the town should be pretty, too, tucked away in the middle of the mountains like it is.

[~Rumormonger~]

I think the town should be pretty, too, tucked away in the middle of the mountains like it is.

Yeah but when the sun comes up about 10 every morning and goes down about 3 in the day it's just hard to, you know, feel pretty.

[Milo Bloom]

Well, it's a university town- it will have a transient feel to it. I was born and raised there so I have the warm fuzzies for it like a lot of you have for Knoxville. Would it be the same to move back there? Of course not- you just can't reclaim the past.
However, when someone asks me where I'm from- I always reply Athens, Georgia. I may be visiting Bathford, England or Florence, Italy at the time...but, home is Athens.

Home is where your heart and memories are-doesn't geographically matter where that is, really.

I'm not from Knoxville. Hell, I'm not really -from- anywhere. A victim of corporate America, if you will.

I have good memories about every city I've ever lived in. I also have bad memories from all of those places, too.

We chose to move to east Tennessee after evaluating where we wanted to be long-term. The question was, "If we retired today, where would we go?"

The answer was East Tennessee, of course. So here we are.

[DnB]

Where else but Knoxville (http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/local_news/article/0,1406,KNS_347_4841405,00.html)?

I'd move here just to see that ;~)

Oh my. I can't believe he drove it all over town.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/dbwest001/jjj4.jpg

[F-Stop]

Yeah but when the sun comes up about 10 every morning and goes down about 3 in the day it's just hard to, you know, feel pretty.

Heh. I don't know if i've been to Harlan, but i've driven north on I-75 into KY. Is it along I-75? Cause that's a pretty depressing looking place...

[Georgia]

We chose to move to east Tennessee after evaluating where we wanted to be long-term. The question was, "If we retired today, where would we go?"

The answer was East Tennessee, of course. So here we are.


Sounds like a good enough reason to me!
To chose an area after living in many other places speaks well for Knoxville and East Tennessee-

[Hank IV]

Heh. I don't know if i've been to Harlan, but i've driven north on I-75 into KY. Is it along I-75? Cause that's a pretty depressing looking place...

I-75 makes Harlan look like West Palm Beach. Take a right off I-75 at London (Kentucky, not Europe) on Daniel Boone Parkway to US 421 South @ Manchester. That'll getcha there. Then, after passing through Harlan, take US 23 South around Duffield,Va. That takes you to Kingsport, TN and you can follow US 11W back to Knoxville. It's a really beautiful drive in the fall, just watch out for the coal trucks, they drive like pizza delivery people. It's a tour through the heart of Appalachia, just don't cry when you see the way some of the people live there. It's Third World.

[Hank IV]

Oh my. I can't believe he drove it all over town.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/dbwest001/jjj4.jpg

Damn him. He was supposed to grade my driveway.

[~Rumormonger~]

Damn him. He was supposed to grade my driveway.

I'll give it a B+, sight unseen, for $50

[Georgia]

I'll give it a B+, sight unseen, for $50


(Good lord I'm tired. I had to read that twice before it clicked.)

[dilettantedude]

She's considering moving from Portland to Knoxville? Is this part of a witness relocation program? Is she a panda? I get moving from Two Egg in the panhandle to Knoxville, but I'm having a really hard time with this one.

Pardon me while I go boggle...

[dilettantedude]

I gotta disagree on the 'game day' thing. Game day is GREAT!! If you love the pageantry of the Vols, game day is GREAT!! If you want to knock a bunch of errands off your list on a Saturday in record time, game day is GREAT!! 15 minute oil changes really are 15 minute oil changes on game day. I-40 is the Autobahn...you can kill a hobo and there would be no witnesses...you can do anything you want on game day, except take a nap in the Fort. On that day, the city is your oyster.

I gotta agree with you on that, Skillet! Game day is my mandatory day to skate around the UT campus, do the hill a couple of times, roll the stairs backwards around campus, fly down the steepest hills that are one way UP - not a cop or car in sight!

[dilettantedude]

I guess it's time to plat the trump card of shitty cities.


(shudder) Gary, Indiana. (shudders, again)

Sandusky, OH. I'd move to Knoxville in a minute from Sandusky, OH. Hell, I'd move to Gary, Indiana from Sandusky, OH.

[Quince]

Why move to Knoxville? Why move to Knoxville? Judas Priest, why NOT move to Knoxville? Knoxville--as Gnaw Parker reminded me only last night--has http://www.buildabear.com/ (now with strap-ons).

[Quince]

Sandusky, OH.

I'll see your Sandusky and raise you Dothan, AL.

[Quince]

Tyler, Texas

Ah, Tyler! Home of the Rose Festival, and of the highest per-capita Barbie lookalike population east of Salt Lake City! How *do* they do it, the genetically inferior want to know. Why, they shunt all their weak DNA across the highway to biker-ghettoized meth-washed Longview, where someone I know saw a pawn-shop cash register drawer spring open to reveal a human tongue.

[dilettantedude]

I'm going with Bentonville, AR or Jackson, MS as the best places on earth to slit your wrists.

WOOT!! Bingo! I just got back from Bentonville & Fayetteville. I was giving talks on ethical investing to businesses in the home city of the Cheaper Chicken Chopper and Wal*&%#@Mart. I felt like I'd entered the Twilight Zone.

I could understand how they selected where to put shopping centers, suburban neighborhoods, office buildings, schools, etc. if they had teleportation. Zip! You're there. But they've done that without teleportation, and built roads connecting everything. Like it doesn't make any sense to put people close together. Bentonville has a population of 30,000, and an Atlanta style traffic problem.

I asked the guy who invited me to put me in a hotel downtown. It was a fucking horror between two shopping centers. Turned out he actually had no idea what "downtown" meant. He thought if I could see a strip shopping center from my motel window, I was downtown!

Having said that, I was surprised that Fayetteville's downtown was actually pretty neat. It's a college town, of course, which helps.

But next time I have to explain ethical investing to a company owned by Phillip Morris, I'm staying downtown. And no fucking chicken.

[Quince]

At least Jackson has a dang ballet company. I think that got it off the bottom of the Richard Florida list.

[dilettantedude]

I'll see your Sandusky and raise you Dothan, AL.

Well... okay. You got me there. I'd forgotten about Dothan. Wiped it from my memory banks, more likely. And I didn't know about bildabear. Gonna have to seriously revise my estimate about the sophistication of Knoxville.

[Quince]

bildabear


Dildabear!

[dilettantedude]

I vote for Beeville, TX. I went thru there on my way back from a month in the north Mexico Chihuahua desert pueblos with a bunch of postcards I had forgotten to put stamps on. They had an old-fashioned general store - wooden floors, little barred cage for when the lady running the general store put her post office hat on and went behind the little Post Office cage. I gave her my post cards and drove north.

Every one of those 20 or so post cards made it to their destination. She had bought a stamp for every one of them personally.

[Quince]

The karaoke at Toot's Honky Tonk is the best entertainment around ...

Oh, hail, yes. Take the ribbon from your hair. Or anyway your combover.

Do they still have that sign up that says "Popcorn is a $1"?

[ScottW]

I gotta vote for the military towns I spent time in as the nations worst - Lawton, OK - Fayetteville, NC - Jacksonville, NC and Norfolk, VA - nasty little pawn shops, tittie bars and used car lots everywhere.

[Quince]

Fayetteville, NC

No doubt. Soldier friend of mine just wrote me from there. Called it FayetteNam.

[Quince]

The Book Eddy.

All out-of-town guests in my home are force-marched to the Book Eddy on pain of being denied fruit cup.

And they all go fucking nuts over it.

Because it is superb. First time I went, I had to go home and lie down for a bit, and then I had to get up and write a song.

[spinetingler]

I gotta vote for the military towns I spent time in as the nations worst - Lawton, OK - Fayetteville, NC - Jacksonville, NC and Norfolk, VA - nasty little pawn shops, tittie bars and used car lots everywhere.

Fayetteville did suck, though I did get my love of libraries there.

[Quince]

Fayetteville did suck, though I did get my love of libraries there.

Biographers of great statesmen, take note!

[~Rumormonger~]

Norfolk, VA

I dunno, I lived in Norfolk, VA for a while and thought it was fine. Though, the Downtown proper sucked ass, I lived in Ghent, Think 4th & Gill and Old North if Broadway actually had a functioning business district. I moved to Poncey-Highlands in Atlanta after that and I'd take Norfolk over Asslanta anyday.

[ScottW]

Not a fan of Atlanta, but then again I don't like many of the bigguns - Chicago is my favorite big city. Small towns I like include, Wrightsville Beach and San Antonio, but I would rather be right here in K-town.

[jack frost]

Atlanta has a whole lot to do, but the thought of actually living in that hell-hole sounds like a very valid definition of "torture".

[jmac]

(mosquitos so big they can stand flat-footed and fuck a turkey).

ooooh shit that's good. when i got to "mosquitos so big" i just knew i was gonna be in for a whopper. that's outstanding

i've never heard that one before, carry on

[xm]

look at all the great places you can drive to in a 2, 4, 6 or 8 hour day.
Chatanooga, Atlanta, Nashville, Memphis, Asheville, Charlotte, Charleston, Cincinnati, Lexington, Louisville, Greenville, Cloumbia and many more. You get the picture.

[Michael]

Not a fan of Atlanta, but then again I don't like many of the bigguns - Chicago is my favorite big city. Small towns I like include, Wrightsville Beach and San Antonio, but I would rather be right here in K-town.
San Antonio? Small town? I dunno.
It's the 7th largest city in the nation, coming in ahead of Dallas. But I'll admit that its downtown does belie that. I miss SA. But I wouldn't trade it for Knoxville.
~m.